It is unclear when Neanderthals split from modern humans, with DNA studies ranging from 182 kya to before 800 kya and the time of divergence from the ancestral Homo heidelbergensis is also vague. The oldest potential Neanderthal bones are dated to 430 kya, but the classification is uncertain. They are known from numerous fossils, especially following 130 kya. The type specimen, Neanderthal 1, was found in 1856 in the German Neander Valley. After much debate over its validity, Neanderthals were depicted as being primitive, stupid, and brutish, for much of the early 20th century. Though their image in the scientific community has markedly changed since, the unevolved caveman archetype remains prevalent in popular culture.